Tag Archives: Prisoner of war

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Remembrance Challenge

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We took our cubs to the local war memorial in the Church just down the road from the Scout Hall. Before we went we”d got the cubs to make a wreath of poppies and to write a message on it. Each boy did his own personal wreath. We then went on a walk down the road and went into the Church where we spoke to them about why we remember and also how things were different back in 1914. South Merstham wasn”t as big then as it is now, for a start the new houses were mostly built in the 1950s. In the 1911 census there were somewhere in the region of 600 men in the locality, about 150 of whom signed up in August 1914 (I”m guessing some would be unfit, others in jobs that couldn”t just go off to war and some others not that keen).

Clark Pack #Merstham #cubs pay tribute to the fallen of South Merstham

Remembrance Challenge

At the end of the session we gave each of the cubs a slip of paper with one of the names from the WW1 memorial in the church and the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website. They were asked to come up with what they could about the name they were given. I took a name too, and being more grown up and a bit of an analyst I went a bit further than just the CWGC website. I didn”t pay for any information though, I only used free open sources.Why don”t you go down to your war memorial and do something similar. Post your findings on your favourite social media and challenge your friends.

Who was William English?

William English was born in Bletchingley in the Autumn of 1874, his father was Gordon English (who lived in South Merstham by 1918). In the summer of 1905 he married Catherine Colgate Dagnall in Reigate. Catherine was born in Reigate in the Summer of 1879 and her family is reasonably well documented on http://loiselden.com/tag/dagnall/.The search entry for the 1911 census (which I couldn”t see the whole record of without paying) showed that William was a caretaker in 1911. He seems to be in Reigate, although I couldn”t quite see the address details. His wife is listed as living at 14 Croydon Road in Reigate by CWGC, he may well have been living there at the time, or she could have moved after his enlistment.

War Service

William”s service number is G/450 and he is listed as an Acting Company Sergeant Major with the 7th (Service) Battalion of the Queen”s (Royal West Surrey) Regiment at the time of his death in May 1918.His regimental service number is very low, the series was used for the wartime volunteers and started in August 1914. This suggests that he was in the first batch of volunteers, although the battalion he served with is part of K2, or the second hundred thousand volunteers. Either way it is likely he was with the 7th (Service) Battalion (NB there was another 7th Bn of the Queen”s Regiment).

7th (Service) Battalion, Queen’s Regiment

Sept 1914 Formed at Guildford as part of the Second New Army (K2) and then moved to Purfleet to join the 55th Brigade of the 18th Division then moved to Colchester.

May 1915 Moved to Salisbury Plain.

27.07.1915 Mobilised for war and landed at Boulogne. This is the start of the Battalion war diary which has been digitised and you can read it online. The first entry lists all the officers and warrant officers with the battalion as well as the overall strength. William English was not a CSM at this stage.

The Battalion spent most of 1916 in the line or resting between spells at the front. It was one of the assault battalions on 1st July and while it took casualties these weren’t enough to stop it actively participating in The Battle of Albert, The Battle of Bazentin Ridge, The Battle of Delville Wood, The Battle of Thiepval Ridge, The Battle of the Ancre Heights, The Battle of the Ancre.

1917 was a similar pattern of operations with periods of rest, consolidation & training between spells in the front line trenches. Operations on the Ancre, The German retreat to the Hindenburg Line, The Third Battle of the Scarpe, The Battle of Pilkem Ridge, The Battle of Langemarck, First Battle of Passchendaele, The Second Battle of Passchendaele. Notably it took a pasting at Passchendaele and lost a lot of men.

In 1918 the battalion was in the line when the Michael offensive happened, and two companies were completely lost, in addition to casualties taken in the other companies that managed to retire. I’d surmise that this is when William English, as an Acting CSM, was captured by the Germans. I’d also guess that he was wounded when he was captured and this is what lead to his death in Germany on 9th May 1918.

It is possible that he was captured earlier and that there was some other cause of death, without seeing a death certificate or a service record (I looked and could not find his service record at all) it is difficult to be sure. I read the entire battalion war diary from when it starts in 1915 up to May 1918 and he isn’t mentioned once. The CSMs occasionally get a mention, usually when they are either replacing the RSM, leaving to be commissioned or running some instruction for junior officers.

Knowing that the role usually keeps them moving between the rear and the front when in action, and ensuring discipline and training in camp it is unlikely that a CSM would be taken prisoner except when the lines are fluid, which is during a large battle. CSMs don’t usually go out and patrol, they’re more likely to be checking sentries or that the rations and ammo have come up if they are in the trenches. In battle they may well be moving forwards to find where people are, which would make them more prone to capture. In a retirement they may not have been with the company when orders were given to retire and could easily turn up where the enemy now are.

CSM William English is listed as a Prisoner of War in the Queen’s Regiment archives, and he is buried in the Niederzwehren cemetery, Kasseler Stadtkreis, Hessen, Germany. This is a concentration cemetery bringing in graves from POWs from southern Germany.

That’s what I know. If you know more please drop me a comment.

Thanks.

Some Sources

Commonwealth War Graves Commission http://www.cwgc.org/

basic info about casualties, as a minimum name, rank, regiment & date of death

UK, Soldiers Died in the Great War, 1914-1919

normally paid but usually free around 11 November each year, has slightly more information that CWGC tends to have

Records of the Queen’s Regiment are online, some with Surrey County Council

http://www.surreycc.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/825571/Queens-Royal-West-Surrey-Regiment-Prisoners-of-War-1918.pdf

http://www.queensroyalsurreys.org.uk/war_diaries/local/7Bn_Queens/7Bn_Queens_1915/7Bn_Queens_1915_07.shtml

FreeBMD (& FreeCEN)http://www.freebmd.org/

Has copies of the transcribed indexes of Births, Marriages & Deaths in England and Wales from the General Register Office. These aren’t very detailed, they’re just intended to point you at the correct page in the register. If you have time you can go into a register office and see the register for free, although they will encourage you to order a certificate instead.

Birth Index Oct-Dec 1874

Surname Given Name District Volume Page

ENGLISH William Godstone 2a 172

Jul-Sep 1879

Dagnall Catherine Colgate Reigate 2a 168

Marriage Jul-Sep 1905

Surname Given Name District Volume Page

ENGLISH William Reigate 2a 439

DAGNALL Catherine Colgate Reigate 2a 439

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Books, History, WW2

For Fuhrer and Fatherland: SS Murder and Mayhem in Wartime Britain

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This was the first time I have read a prisoner of war story involving Germans as the POWs, apart from having read the official history of British Intelligence in WW2 (which only dealt with the captured German spies). I have, however read lots about the prisoners of the Germans.

It was interesting that security in British camps seems to have been quite lax. Despite many apparently successful German breakouts there is only one well known instance of a German POW making a home run. This book comes across as having been well researched where it comes to its primary subject matter, although there is quite a lot of preamble with a summary of how WW2 went which is not as well researched as the main subject. This lets it down for those well versed in WW2 history.

Once the preamble is done there is a specific history of the camp in Devizes that is obviously the author’s initial exposure to the story that he decided to write about. There is a lot of original research included where the author has spoken to locals about the camp before researching it in the national archives. The story follows the efforts of the British authorities to keep control in the last year of the war when prisoner numbers increased dramatically.

The German POWs were graded according to their sympathies to the Nazis, the believers being black, the anti-Nazis being white and the majority Grey. The camps were initially mixed, and the Nazis outnumbered the anti-nazis. This meant that the camps were run by the Nazis and had a hostile tone for those Germans that had worked out how the war was going to end.

After a riot in Devizes a number of the POWs were transferred to a camp in Scotland. When they got there some of the hardliners decided that some of their fellow POWs weren’t ardent enough Nazis. This came to a head with the lynching of a German prisoner who was accused of collaboration with the British.

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Books, games, History, WW2

St.Valery: The Impossible Odds by Bill Innes

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This is a collection of first hand accounts, mainly posthumously published from three men who were ordinary soldiers in the 51st Highland Division in 1940. None of them were officers (although one was commissioned after his escape and return home). The main part of the book is a personal account originally published in Gaelic and subsequently translated into english as “A Cameron Never Can Yield”. This forms just over half the book and tells the story from the start of the German attack on 10 May 1940 through surrender at St Valery on 12th June 1940, escape on the march into Germany and then life in Marseilles in the winter of 1940-41 followed by a winter crossing of the Pyrenees and time spent in Spanish prison camps before returning to the UK. The other two stories are relatively similar, although neither of the men managed to return back to the UK and they both had different experiences in their prisoner of war camps and work details. All three of them had a horrendously rough time of it, which seems to be the norm for these early POWs (and the later ones too).

Even though I’ve read everything I can get my hands on about the 51st Highland Division and also lots of personal accounts of both combat and POW life this book was different. Each of the accounts started with a potted history of the person and what they had done before the start of the war, and then ended with what they did after demobilisation. That provided a bit of context, but the most refreshing thing about it was that it was about private soldiers and not officers, which is unusual. Most of the books are written by officers (if first-hand accounts) or by those that would have been had they not become history professors. This puts a different slant on life and makes for a whole different side to the story.

Also, unlike other stories of the 51st Highland Divsion in 1940, it didn’t end on 12th June at St Valery, in fact that was where most of the story started.

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CLWG, roleplaying, universe, WW2

CLWG December 1999

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What you missed at the Chestnut Lodge Wargames Group (CLWG) December 1999 meeting.

English: Wreckage of a Fairley Battle shot dow...
English: Wreckage of a Fairley Battle shot down by the Wehrmacht, France, on May 1940. Deutsch: Trümmer einer von der Wehrmacht im Mai 1940 in Frankreich abgeschossenen Fairley Battle. (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

The CLWG December 1999 meeting started from 12 at John Rutherford’s house and we played until after 9pm. Afterwards we chatted, with the aid of several bottles of wine, until almost midnight. In total we had 13 members at the meeting. It started with a fairly light-hearted game called ‘Battling Druids‘ which was originally designed by Trevor Farrant as a participation game for wargames shows for another club that he is a member of. This involves four 100mm models of druids, four fountains, a cloud with a lighting bolt, hordes of hedges, magic spells and a whole lot of fun.

A sergeant air-gunner mans his Vickers 'K' gun...
A sergeant air-gunner mans his Vickers ‘K’ gun from the rear cockpit of a Fairey Battle. (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

Next up was an RAF Aircrew RPG which I ran with the help of a couple of others. This involved the layers creating themselves characters, setting off in their Fairey Battles and hamming it up big style. Every stereotype was there, from the Australian bush pilot (who was a real-life Quantas Jumbo Jet pilot) to the terrible ex-public schoolboy who drove his Morgan nearly as fast as the aircraft. All the players ended up in enemy hands (what do you expect when you take a Fairey Battle to bomb a bridge in Maastricht?) They were separated, interrogated and then combined in a prison camp (except for the Aussie who broke out and ran for it like a man).

This led us nicely into our next game from Jerry, which was set in a POW camp near the Swiss border in the later part of 1944. It was based on one of the exercises that the regular army uses to test its potential officers reasoning ability. We split into two groups for this, and although both groups came up with reasonable plans neither of us managed to get the ‘DS solution’ which is what the army consider to be the correct answer. Admittedly the set problem does tie your hands a bit and railroads you towards a sub-optimal solution (at least in my view). This also ran alongside another session of the ‘Battling Druids’.

Next up was the club quiz, run by me. It came in two parts. The first part was where I asked people ten questions about their ideal game, its title, what it would feature, what it wouldn’t feature, where it was set, its subject and who the dream designer would be and a couple of other things too. The interval was filled by Chinese takeaway and some wine. After that I read out the answers to each of he questions and people had to guess who had written which answers. Given the rather silly nature of some answers (e.g. one of the games was titled something like “Manchurian Kung-Fu Space Marines vs. Psycho-Alien Death Nazis from Mars”, another called “Charles & Die” – about the English Civil War naturally) this was a highly amusing game where people were accused of all sorts of things.

After the club quiz things degenerated further into hilarity with a game of Starship Marine. The game was different from normal because each player had to write down what actions the player on their left did (which rotated round the table each turn). When you got the bit of paper telling you what had just happened you announced what you wanted your character to do next (and hopefully the person who was writing down what actually happens was listening to you). This game involved teddy bears, VR porn, scantily clad women, large alien robots, leaking steam, a system failure in a suit of powered armour, accidental grenade throwing and a host of other improbable and hilarious outcomes that wouldn’t normally have happened in one of our usual games using the rules.

All that happened after that was that we sat around and talked for an hour or so before deciding that we had to leave to get last buses/trains/etc home. In all it was a good session.

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